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Peggy Venable of Americans for Prosperity interviews Jon Roland of the Constitution Society on Constitution Day, September 17, 2013, in Austin, Texas
http://constitution-day.org/events
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0:02
good afternoon I'm Peggy bellable and you're watching eyes on Texas you're on
0:08
uh Lori Bartlett's Internet TV network on point
0:14
broadcasting we're so glad you're with us today this is September 17th and it is Constitution Day as I refer to it and
0:22
many of us do but we have a real expert in the studio today John Roland who is
0:29
the founder and president of the conscious Constitution Society is in the
0:35
studio with us and we're going to be talking about Constitution Day and how that came about and what that means John
0:41
thank you so much for joining us thank you everybody thank you well it's great
0:46
to have you here and we've been excited to celebrate Constitution week this week
0:52
and today Tuesday September 17th as Constitution Day but just before the
0:58
cameras were rolling we were talking about the history of Constitution Day and the fact that it really had a
1:04
different name if you could give us a little bit of that history on what we now refer to as Constitution Day
1:10
well many of the states we're calling it citizenship day for many years
1:17
and uh Congress passed the bill designating it as
1:26
a Constitution Day they didn't make it an official day off type of holiday but they did
1:34
designate it as such then in 2004 Senator Robert Byrd of West Virginia
1:43
introduced an amendment which required all schools receiving federal funds
1:50
to celebrate Constitution Day on or about September 17th of each year
1:56
which means that if they don't if they can in principal lose federal funds
2:01
so after that they started taking it seriously
2:08
and uh but it's been they've been very slow to comply
2:13
last year or there were very few schools that celebrated it
2:18
a notable exception was our local Austin Community College
2:24
and uh but I've been promoting it across the country I set up a website
2:31
constitution.day.org let me repeat that for folks who may be
2:36
listening in because I'm looking at it now and it's Constitution Dash day dot o
2:43
r g and then you have on there just a list of events if they hit on the events
2:49
right 10 this year for the first time that I've been able to find
2:55
there are events in all 50 states in the District of Columbia that have websites
3:01
maybe not websites of the sponsored organizations but at least websites
3:07
perhaps on local Media newspapers or other media in which the schools have
3:13
announced it and provided details so uh previously it was made might just
3:19
be obscure a little uh entry in a events calendar but no details
3:25
so this year the beginning to pick up the phase and I've been putting out toward to the
3:33
on the internet for people to check with your schools in your area to see if
3:40
they're in compliance and if they're not to remind them that they could lose their Federal funding if they don't wow
3:46
we you've been very successful and certainly in looking at this list I'm
3:51
looking at your website right now a lot of them seem to be colleges and
3:56
universities of some cities and other entities are hosting events tell me a
4:03
little bit about why are the colleges hosting the events was the bird Senator
4:09
Burns recommendation for K-12 or was it for
4:14
all schools all schools higher ed and K-12 although it's interesting because
4:22
the first and second tier colleges universities are underrepresented in
4:28
this list the community colleges and private colleges are much more in compliance
4:38
federal funds that's a good point I do see though Texas A M College Station is
4:44
listed so that's a a top-notch University of Houston Victoria
4:49
um but I haven't found a lot for the University of University of Texas you know you may
5:00
oh baby uh about just that but this is a very impressive list of events and
5:07
activities and you mentioned one of them at Austin Community College isn't taking place today but next week is that right
5:14
next on the 24th uh I hold not so far of
5:20
all the events such events that I've looked at they seem to have by far the
5:26
best what they do is they gather to gather several hundred students
5:32
uh they seat them at tables typically maybe eight or ten per table
5:38
and then allow up two two or three you know maybe two or three four tables
5:43
they're grouped together on one topic each group of tables is given a topic
5:49
and they sit around they discussed the issues
5:56
aspects of or sections of the Constitution well but in particular
6:02
current live issues issues that could come before The Supreme Court at any
6:07
time and then um toward the end of the program they get
6:15
together and decide pick one person to represent the pro side and another to
6:21
represent the Khan's side and then they stand up with the microphone and they
6:26
have a few minutes to debate to make their points arguing for their position now there are no winners or losers but
6:35
there is a critique in which the the debate coach sounds like you might have had a little
6:41
bit to do with helping them plan this event because it sounds like it is a real education event yeah actually I
6:47
didn't I've just been a uh assisting at the tables with the students when they
6:55
had questions on constitutional points well it sounds like a great a great idea and you can find out more information
7:01
about that event and a lot of other events by going to Constitution Dash day
7:08
dot o r g and then uh forward slash events and there's an enormous listing
7:15
of events around the country I know John that you just came from the Texas
7:21
Capitol and that you had an event there at the Capitol can you tell our viewers
7:26
a little bit about that event yes it was uh
7:31
involved a number of different groups we all came together for one occasion on
7:37
people's unconstitution day a fell that starting at 1 pm uh right on the south steps of the
7:45
Capitol which is an excellent place to hold such events we have beautiful weather
7:51
and a good participation and several of us gave speeches and
7:58
got acquainted and uh committed one another to continue our
8:04
work on the field that's just super well I know you came you came here directly from that event
8:10
and I want to say thank you so much for doing so yeah it's just a short walk from here it is a short walk to the
8:16
studio but it's a warm day I think here now tell me a little bit about what you
8:22
see as the challenges when it comes to our constitution so many of us take for
8:27
granted um the Constitution that we have the privilege of living under but our
8:32
forefathers really fought to provide us with this framework for American
8:38
exceptionalism that we have the privilege of enjoying tell me how you
8:43
first got involved and how you why you created the Constitution Society
8:50
well actually I first read the Constitution when I was seven years old and uh became fascinated with it tried
8:58
to learn as much as I could about it you know long before I think it came up in public school
9:04
but As I Grew Older I also came to realize that the government was in substantial violation of it
9:11
and that bothered me but I couldn't find enough people other people who seem to be similarly bothered
9:18
so that just uh nod on me you know for many years of course in the meantime I
9:25
kept learning more and more uh eventually I joined the Air Force
9:33
and formally took the oath to preserve protect and defend the Constitution and I'm not going to take an oath unless
9:40
I take it seriously and that means learning to understand what this thing
9:45
is that I'm obligating myself to preserve protect and defend and what it
9:51
requires of me so I set out to make myself an expert on the subject
9:58
but it was really the uh not so much the the massacre of the
10:04
Davidians in 1993 but the trial of the Davidians in 1994
10:11
that was the Tipping Point for me because I essentially
10:17
Drew my own mental Line in the Sand for the government it says here's your opportunity to get it right in court
10:24
when we're out of the heat of battle but if you you know if you violate the
10:32
rights of the Davidians and the way you conduct this trial and I made a long list of the ways they
10:37
could commit judicial and prosecutorial misconduct
10:43
then watched as not actually unexpectedly they checked out every one
10:49
of the items on my list and added a few more I haven't thought of well let's just in case our viewers
10:56
don't remember the Branch Davidian situation and that case could you I know
11:04
we just have a half hour so I don't want to spend too much on that but you make an excellent point that that's a great
11:10
example of where the government overstepped their constitutional bounds could you just for our viewers give them
11:16
a little overview what happened in outside Waco at the Branch Davidian compound and then the resulting
11:23
action that the government took well on February 28th they allegedly tried to
11:29
serve a warrant which they did not actually have in their hands for the rest of David Perez the leader
11:37
of the Davidians and the search for illegal so-called illegal weapons
11:42
which would essentially be weapons in which a 200 tax had not been paid
11:48
and there were no such weapons at the time but for some reason shooting started
11:55
we think that what happened was that some of the ATF agents shot some of the
12:02
dogs and others thought that Davidians had fired on them when it was really their
12:07
own agents they were shooting dogs so they started pouring lead into the
12:13
building including actor Ash who was at the doorway
12:18
and then the dividend started firing back in return in defense so the Davidians had Firearms yes but we think
12:26
were they were not converted to full automatic at the on February 28th now
12:32
there is reason to think that the some of them were converted during the standoff which continued until April
12:39
19th when the FBI uh moved in using tanks to knock down
12:48
the walls of the building insert flammable gas into the building and a fire started
12:54
which we think was delivered on the part of the government so I guess um
13:01
we're talking about Constitution Day and we are that incident came up but I guess in in
13:07
a bigger picture that is maybe a microcosm of what's wrong that our federal government is so overstepped the
13:14
Constitutional bounds that our forefathers had envisioned and that is I
13:20
think um probably not that rare but a very extreme case of that I guess many of us
13:27
that watch Washington and much of what goes on in Washington DC and in Congress
13:32
and what the president does is overstepping the bounds of the Constitution I guess some of us would
13:38
think there's a very uh Infamous situation right now with Obamacare and
13:44
the health care act could you talk a little bit about how how Congress
13:50
um and this President may have overstepped the Constitutional bounds or if they have what concerns you may have
13:57
now well of course it's not just this kind of session of Congress or this president
14:03
this is just the culmination of many many decades in fact the major
14:09
departures of from the Constitution started about 1819 with the Supreme
14:15
Court of case of malcolami V Maryland and it's been sliding downhill ever
14:21
since now once in a while the Supreme Court will recognize some right
14:27
correctly but they're only having to do that because they previously wrongly
14:33
recognized the exercise of some power of that the federal government doesn't have
14:39
so there's sometimes a backtrack a little bit to carve out a right from a power that they shouldn't be exercising
14:45
in the first place but it's been the decisions that sustained powers that
14:51
have been the main problem so the Supreme Court really has the ultimate
14:56
ability to make decision or they're not a law or an action is constitutional and it they're they're
15:05
human beings appointed by the president and confirmed by the
15:10
Senate are what what can we as Citizens do to
15:16
protect our Constitution and I guess what you would my first say is we first need to know the Constitution right
15:21
correct and that's not as easy as a lot of people think because the Constitution was written in
15:28
a legal English of 1787. which is not either the ordinary English
15:34
or the legal English we use today there are also a number of Provisions in
15:40
terms of it which are unfamiliar to Modern readers
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and which from our the Viewpoint of people reading
15:51
them today are ambiguous now they were not as ambiguous to the people who wrote them
15:56
but they had the advantage of several centuries of Education if the law
16:02
leading up to 1787. and almost no one studies that today
16:08
except a few legal historians so uh uh to backtrack a little bit after the
16:17
the way that I saw the way the trial was going I formed the Constitutional Society
16:25
and later the following year so we're back to the Branch Davidian trial my
16:33
apologies I did take us off that topic so you're telling us a pound what got you really started in in establishing
16:41
the constitution of society right I figured that at that point there needed to be an organized effort
16:48
I also felt that uh there would be armed revolt on the part of the American
16:57
people many of the American people if this sort of thing continued
17:02
and if we didn't organize them to resist constructively
17:08
so I set out to build a movement that would return us to strict compliance
17:15
with the Constitution without the need to resort to violence
17:20
and I think I've been reasonably successful in that I know a lot of people who were disposed
17:27
to violence who have been turned away from violence toward constructive political efforts excellent
17:35
um when I first got started when I first created the website
17:40
in 1995 I found there was almost nothing on the
17:45
web the inner the World Wide Web you know in the way of constitutional materials
17:51
and your website for constitution Society is what constitution.org
17:57
okay and so I set out first of all I just I wanted to have the
18:02
documents myself so I just let me say I'm shocked that you got constitution.org wow wow congratulations
18:10
uh I wanted to off all the documents that anyone would need to decide
18:16
constitutional questions and the easiest way to even have them
18:21
for my own use was to scan them with a scanner convertedly them into digital
18:28
Pages which could just as easily be web pages which are searchable
18:34
so I can quickly search through them to find anything I want on any subject then of course the natural thing was to
18:40
put that on a website so I figure that eventually uh I would
18:45
be overtaken that the government or universities or other things would would
18:50
eventually have all this material online and I could you know just like just like sit back and link to
18:58
that right well that has never happened wow they've never caught up
19:04
in fact a lot of them even have mistakes that I have to I have the corrected version on my website that they lack on
19:11
theirs so we have not only a most complete collection of constitutional documents
19:17
but the most accurate you know that's so amazing and you
19:24
've uh largely I have had volunteers helping with the scanning and the corrections and all that but I usually
19:30
wind up having to come in and go over their corrections to correct their Corrections let me ask since you know so
19:37
much about the Constitution and it's something that we all live under and
19:42
should know a lot about how first in the constitution do you believe Americans
19:47
are today not at all I mean it's a it's pathetic
19:53
and what do you attribute that to is it a lack of a lack of Education lack of interest uh
20:00
tell me what your thinking is in regard to that well it's a lack of commitment on the part of parents and teachers
20:07
in the middle of the 19th century uh kids were practically asked to memorize
20:14
the Constitution we have an example of a textbook from
20:21
1854 which was uh the model at first time and
20:27
basically all it was is a a textbook on the Constitution
20:33
and uh uh what grade would that advantage that would have been uh what today we would
20:40
call High School our Early College now when I went to a public school we
20:46
did have American government in fact we had a textbook that came right out and said that most of the
20:54
stuff done under the Commerce Clause would have been considered unconstitutional by the framers
21:00
and I said aha so uh there were glimmers even then but I've
21:09
done some substitute teaching at the high school and middle school level and
21:14
we don't have very much of that anymore I was also involved in uh
21:20
cleaning up the textbooks used by the state of Texas right I remember I think
21:26
that may be when we met 10 or 12 or more years ago that my testimony is I made
21:33
videos of it it's online and uh there was one textbook in
21:39
particular you remember that incident since 1950 they have been teaching that informal
21:45
amendments of the Constitution were just as good as formal ones and uh when I saw that I said that this
21:53
either this textbook has to be Rewritten or it has to go right and they were right up to the last
21:59
minute until with they finally got the author but it was consent was needed to cave in
22:07
and agree to rewriting that textbook you know that's how that shows power when
22:12
you're able to get a textbook corrected that frankly had been wrong for so many years and and our NATO correction well
22:20
let me just ask this question what can we do we as Citizens um I'm with Americans for Prosperity and
22:27
uh many of the the groups and the individuals that I work with in Texas really have a great respect for the
22:35
Constitution and want to see our government adhere
22:41
strictly to the Constitution what can we do to try to make that happen well first
22:46
of all make constitutional compliance and issue at every election
22:52
there's a tendency for people to dwell on policy issues
22:57
entity to neglect the Constitution but ever so often you have to stand up
23:02
and say this policy is unconstitutional in fact it may even be a policy that you
23:08
like you know I've had to have been in some policy positions of my own because I
23:14
came to realize they were unconstitutional and but you know what I discovered
23:19
that in almost every case it was possible to solve the same problem within the
23:26
constraints of the Constitution and that if you just tried to find a solution that was constitutional you
23:32
would use almost always be a better solution
23:44
still be withstanding all of these Generations yeah I don't think they
23:49
realize that at the time right they had a lot of doubts about their their word product in 17 September 17 1787.
24:01
a lot of people have come to the conclusion uh you don't even have to be a religious
24:07
believer that this was divinely inspired
24:12
Mike yeah I I think this is comes the closest thing we have to a Latter Day
24:18
scripture
24:27
let me just as you've been engaged in textbooks and know pretty much what's in the in the
24:34
classroom of what isn't in the classroom across the country today what can we do
24:39
to try to improve the education
24:44
the citizenship and Constitution education going on in our schools
24:51
well the first thing is somebody needs to Simply go over what it is a
24:57
government does and review it for its constitutionality and make it clear to everyone students
25:04
teachers officials everyone else journalists that this is constitutional and that is
25:10
not a lot of it is going to be unconstitutional and when it's not unconstitutional they
25:16
need to be able to explain why for example 95 of all Federal Criminal
25:22
statutes are based not on the Constitution but on the court decision wickard V filbert from 1942
25:29
which sustained the criminal prosecution of a farmer from eating his own cork that was subject to price and production
25:37
controls there's no Authority in the Constitution for that and yet because
25:43
the they had to have that precedent now something they can seize on the precedent to pass all these Federal
25:51
Criminal statutes
25:56
I'd like to to leave our viewers with
26:01
some nuggets of your wisdom it sounds like it's
26:07
that it's not a hopeless situation I hope but
26:12
it sounds like we are losing this battle and you make it sound like this it
26:19
sounds like it's a tough thing for us to do to if so many laws are unconstitutional the federal government
26:24
is acting outside the Constitutional limits um
26:30
I'm assuming that you're saying that educating the public on the Constitution isn't enough what what do you think
26:36
needs well it seemed hopeless when I started the Constitution society and opened my website
26:43
however the so much support has now grown around
26:49
uh my efforts and those of many other good people that is no longer hopeless
26:55
now we have uh elections in which constitutionalists are actually winning
27:01
Rand Paul Ted Cruz yes perhaps me if I win the nomination of my party for the
27:08
U.S Senate for 19 2014. and uh understand you are on the ballot
27:16
that's right well not yet
27:21
as the leader of the and founder of the Constitution Society but I'm delighted
27:27
for you to share that information without yours um so you're saying that uh
27:33
we haven't gone too far down the wrong path yet that we can still turn things
27:39
around if we get the right people elected to office yeah but I'm afraid now we're in another kind of situation
27:45
because of our very poor fiscal and monetary management
27:51
not only in this country but around the world I'm afraid we're headed toward a another
27:58
world depression that will make the one of the 30s seem trivial by comparison
28:05
and you recall that one led to a second world war and to uh you know
28:11
hundreds of millions of deaths uh today we didn't have nuclear weapons
28:17
then except at the very end of it so the stakes are very high
28:24
and I'm concerned that if we go into a in a collapse like that and we're not
28:32
prepared to come out on the other side and so that the dictatorship comes to
28:37
Reign Over mankind instead of a return to constitutional Republican government
28:43
that the fire of Freedom May finally be snuffed out because after that dictators
28:49
will have the technological needs to control us that they have never had
28:54
before Orwell's 1984 would have loved to have
29:02
the technology that the NSA does to keep us under control very good point Big Brother's tele
29:08
screens were nothing compared to what we've got now but so I guess
29:14
um I feel like people in their hearts so want and Love Freedom that freedom will
29:21
have to Prevail that you're saying it needs preparation uh we we most of what I'm doing I do not
29:29
expect to be successful in my lifetime but I'm hoping to lay the foundation so
29:36
that after the collapse people will learn the right lessons from that development and come out on the other
29:43
side with a better world you certainly have accomplished a lot I
29:49
encourage people to go to your website Constitution Dot or or
29:57
constitution.org wow we have been visiting with John Roland he is the founder and president of the
30:03
Constitution Society it is September 17 Constitution Day and we're so pleased to
30:08
have had you with us we're going to take a brief break and we'll be back in just a moment to talk about what's on the
30:15
November ballot that will cost Texans up to 5 billion dollars we're going to talk
30:21
about that in just a moment John thank you so much for joining us thank you for having me
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