From aol.com!Mo10Cav Sun Aug 25 17:01:39 1996 X-POP3-Rcpt: jdr@mail Received: from emout12.mail.aol.com (emout12.mx.aol.com) by mail.crl.com with SMTP id AA01457 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for ); Sat, 24 Aug 1996 05:14:27 -0700 Received: by emout12.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA16753; Sat, 24 Aug 1996 08:05:09 -0400 Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 08:05:09 -0400 From: Mo10Cav@aol.com Message-Id: <960824080507_392855283@emout12.mail.aol.com> To: UnreConfed@aol.com, Mo10Cav@aol.com Cc: whit@cs.utexas.edu, HPBIII@aol.com, CopWatch@aol.com, ntcmc6@iadfw.net, eplurib@megalinx.net, TipRing123@aol.com, JHCapt@aol.com, MIPER1@aol.com, A2Fast4U@aol.com, MILITIA@tomlinson.com, Glockist@aol.com, JDR@crl.com, 70731.2155@compuserve.com, JGibson784@aol.com, 72074.2330@compuserve.com, fchatham@chathfr.win.net, K1911A1@aol.com, nryder@capecod.net, thudson@pen.net, hawkins@norden1.com, CGrib70171@aol.com, MarkXIV@aol.com, 72242.3227@compuserve.com, 102150.3274@compuserve.com, tsm1@ix.netcom.com, rfine@dopig.uab.edu, sbachus@hr.house.gov, AHABIZ@aol.com, butterb@connecti.com, bobhall@telepath.com, QLQJ73A@prodigy.com, BlkJack07@aol.com, lfrank@tennessean.com, TThomas101@aol.com, bucquero@pilot.msu.edu, COPS555@aol.com, GWilburn@aol.com, freeking@hub.ofthe.net, bradyco@sky.net, BLDIRKS@aol.com, thomas.darby@the-matrix.com Subject: README, OR: "YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO REMAIN SILENT" Status: OR Dear Kirk, Regarding your response to my response to your response..... Let's take your comments ad seriatim: 1. "Is this your hobby or something?" No, actually my hobby is researching western theatre Civil War cavalry campaigns. Someday, after the present insanity of the Clinton Administration is over, I'll get back to writing my book(s). But OKC as "hobby"? No, as we both know this is deadly serious business. I didn't get involved in it lightly, nor out of a desire to "become important" as you charged in an earlier opus. I got involved several months ago when I received some rather startling information about your "client" and the safehouse in Knoxville, McVeigh's duffel bag (what did Andy do with those "McVeigh" nametapes off the BDUs?), and "illegal alien" Andy's Virginia-issued (CIA Petruskie?) SSN and Tennessee driver's license, as well as his itinerary pre- and post-bombing. I didn't solicit it, but there it was. I knew that Glen had started his own investigation (which you, Dees-like, have attempted to tar as an extension of the McVeigh defense team. Nothing could be further from the truth. Nothing we have found exculpates McVeigh. He was a truck driver and, likely, fuse puller. Indeed, your faint praise of McVeigh on one hand, and your use of him to tar the Wilburns on the other illustrates either cognitive dissonance on your part or the cynical lawyer's trade of saying two opposing "truths" to two different juries thinking that they won't compare notes until after they've rendered their respective verdicts.) It was logical to take him the information and ask if he had it already. Some he did, some he didn't. He asked if my sources could confirm certain other information, and thus was born my involvement (and that of my friends) in the Wilburn investigation of the Oklahoma City bombing mass murder. My John Doe #2 Identified series came about because the facts and questions being turned up by the Wilburn investigation were not being investigated by the major media, and I turned to the one outlet that was open to us-- the Internet. But is it a "hobby" with me? No. Nor is it for J.D. Cash and the Wilburns. They were forced to sit down at this table-- their chips were bought and paid for in blood. In the Wilburns' case, it was the blood of their two grandsons, Chase and Colton. In J.D.'s case, that of friends. All killed on 19 April 1995 by someone who (and if your "client" ain't one of 'em, he has already admitted he knows who did) is still walking around free and easy thanks to a government coverup. It relates to some simple home truths I learned about honesty, citizenship and simple justice when I was younger. It is why I got into the militia movement in the first place. It is part of being an American. It is no "hobby." It would be better for your "client" if it was, but it ain't. 2. "Strassmeir has always spelled his name the same." Really, Kirk? What about his American driver's licenses, car titles, Social Security card, credit/fuel cards, passports, ATF/FBI Indices, as well as German records found by investigators--- all reflect differing spellings of one kind or another? My count is up to four variations as detailed in my post. 3. "I don't have to prove anything." Quite true. Both you and Andy will be considered innocent until proven guilty if and when you are tried on various charges. But I am no prosecutor. I have never pretended to be. Nor have I pretended to be a "mainstream" journalist. In the case of you, your boy Andy and the Oklahoma City bombing investigation, I am, in no particular order, a concerned citizen; a militiaman who is sworn to uphold the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic; a writer who writes, albeit poorly, from a particular POV; a transcriber of (and commentator upon) news articles from a variety of sources; an AOL subscriber; and, apparently, someone which you feel quite important enough to engage in (what to others must seem like an interminable) conversation via public email. I'm sure its occurred to such a smart lawyer as yourself that by engaging a "crazy" "storyteller" (your words) in this way that you elevate my "importance" and dignify my "charges" (again, your words). Not that I mind really, it's just that the very exercise exhibits a sort of, well, nervousness on your part that I may be too close to the truth. If I'm a loon, why respond at all to the specifics, unless for your "client" "the devil's in the details"? It is interesting to me that you have wrapped your arms even tighter around Andy as the revelations have trickled out. At some point, you'll have to make the choice of giving him up to save yourself, or going down with him. That statement of yours, "If Andy's a snitch then so am I" is going to come back to haunt you. Of course, since he's in Germany and you're here, it's probably you who will called to account for some of those "devil's details" before he will. Have you considered backing off a bit and becoming more "lawyer" and less "consigliere"? A little daylight could help you make your deal. "Where's the proof, 'mindreader'?" you'll opine. I can hear it now. Well, remember Kirk, we've always been several months ahead of the headlines, and I'll admit that even now it's only even money whether we can defeat the intense pressure being put by Stephanopoulos and Co. on the networks to keep this story off the airwaves. But I think we will win, and the truth will out. If you're all that interested in the truth, why not have your "client" come back to this country long enough to give a deposition under oath to the Wilburn attorneys? He could even sign it this time. 4. "Where are the payments to Strassmeir?" Well, some of them are detailed quite nicely in ATF/FBI records I'm sure (at least, so say our sources). Then there's the issue (which you deny) of money from Petruskie to Strassmeir handled by you and persons known to you. Now leaving aside some specific allegations of one of our sources, let's ask this: You do not deny, do you Mr. Lyons, that you and your friends and your foundation have served as a mail and package drop for Mr. Strassmeir? Does that include both packages and mail from Mr. Petruskie? (Answer to both questions, as we both know, is "yes.") And if you served as a mail drop, leaving aside any other allegations of direct payments, those letters and packages could have contained money, could they not Mr. Lyons? Are you familiar with UPS shipments to the Knoxville safehouse addressed to Mr. Strassmeir that were signed for and received WITHIN the past few months (long after Mr. Strassmeir left the country), Mr. Lyons? Well, I could go on, but you get the drift.... By the way, thank you for the phone records you generated in the past couple of days after Mr. Patrick Henry started his notes to you about Andy's breakfast with his pals on the 18th of April 1995. They will be most instructive, I'm sure. 5. "How we paid for it (Andy's "exfiltration" to Germany accompanied by pard Holloway) is none of your business." Maybe, but it is the business of all the patriots who sent you money for the Davidians only to see it squandered on the smuggling of a friend of yours out of the country to avoid uncomfortable questions. I don't think that's what they paid for. But why don't you ask them in the next issue of your newsletter? Why not tell them exactly how the expenses break down, how much was paid for out of CAUSE donations they sent for the Davidians, and ask them if they mind? By the way, I love your explanation of why H. had to accompany Andy on the trip: interpreter? What language did he speak that Andy didn't? Spanish, maybe? Well, that does bring up a point: Where was it exactly that Andy stayed in Mexico City? Who owned the property? Did he visit any armdealers we both know down there? And tell me, did Holloway run because he became concerned after the Sherrow interview? You can let him answer himself, if you like. I'd like to start a dialogue with him too. 6. "I thought you knew everything about Andy?" No, Kirk, never pretended I did. But I know a lot more about him than you wish I did, and we all know a lot more about Andy and his relationship with you and the Aryan Nations soon. Remember, Kirk: "You have the right to remain silent...." -- Mike Vanderboegh, 1 ACR --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: Re: README Date: 96-08-23 15:57:31 EDT From: UnreConfed To: Mo10Cav CC: whit@cs.utexas.edu,HPBIII,CopWatch CC: ntcmc6@iadfw.net CC: eplurib@megalinx.net,TipRing123 CC: JH Capt,MIPER1,A2Fast4U CC: MILITIA@tomlinson.com,Glockist CC: JDR@crl.com CC: 70731.2155@compuserve.com CC: JGibson784 CC: 72074.2330@compuserve.com CC: fchatham@chathfr.win.net,K1911A1 CC: nryder@capecod.net,thudson@pen.net CC: hawkins@norden1.com,CGrib70171 CC: Mark XIV,72242.3227@compuserve.com CC: 102150.3274@compuserve.com CC: tsm1@ix.netcom.com CC: rfine@dopig.uab.edu CC: sbachus@hr.house.gov,AHABIZ CC: butterb@connecti.com CC: dyurman@world.std.com CC: bobhall@telepath.com CC: QLQJ73A@prodigy.com,BlkJack07 CC: lfrank@tennessean.com,TThomas101 CC: bucquero@pilot.msu.edu,COPS555 CC: GWilburn,freeking@hub.ofthe.net CC: bradyco@sky.net,piml@connecti.com CC: BLDIRKS,thomas.darby@the-matrix.com Dear Mike, In a message dated 96-08-22 19:50:34 EDT, Mo10Cav writes: < Kirk, I sure am enjoying this one man Clinton-like "Rapid Response Team" you're doing. Now to this alleged ATF absolution of Andy.....(Mike your enjoyment, doesn't concern me in the least. Is this your hobby or something?) 1. No BOLO "on anybody with the name of Strassmeir." a. As you well know, your "client" has used at least four different spellings of his name: "Strassmeir", "Strassdmeir", "Stassmeir" and "Stassdmeir". Let me see a SIGNED letter on official ATF stationery from Martz covering all those spellings for an open ended time period (i.e. no "non-denial denial" wiggle room) and then maybe I'll take him seriously. Except for, b. the BOLO J.D. Cash describes in his article DOES exist,(again Mike, where's the proof, save for a McCurtain Daily gazette article?) and it's the genuine article. Guess you'll have to wait for your trial to see it. (Why not send me a copy now, or have you not seen the "original". Taking JD's word is not the same as proof) Note: Strassmeir has always spelled his name the same. It's the media who have had the hard time spelling it. And since you seem to believe everything you read in the newspapers, especially when JD Cash's name is appended to the article, I'm not surprized there are diffenent spellings out there. And why don't you ask for the signed letter, I don't have to prove anything. The only trial I'm worried about will be the civil trial I prosecute on behalf of Andy, once his name is cleared, especially if Andy is not allowed to reenter the country due to the libels of bozos who would rather make a splash in their own little pond. Like I said earlier, you are probably judgement proof, and not worth the trouble to sue, but we can probably use you as a witness. 2. "Why would they be nice to me?" Wrong question of course. They're not being "nice to you." It's pure self-interest and survival mode. The ATF doesn't give a rat's ass about your continued good health, only their own. (true, I'm suing them for $330 million) In fact, they're more than a little upset at your "client" for not giving them the heads up about the change in plans(again, proof of this assertion)-- when the bomb went off after they dismantled the stakeout. They didn't get what they paid for(proof of payments, Mike) -- they got a whole lot more than they bargained for. Double or triple cross I don't know, but Andy does (oh really?) And if you don't, you're "client" ain't leveling with you.(I believe he has levelled with me, I am not worried - you, however seem to be losing it). Note: I would be interested to know where you learned mind reading, that enables you to pull facts out of the air unknown to even the person whose mind you are reading. All of this is mere supposition on your part, buttressed by "facts" that are false. Where are the payments to Strassmeir? How much was he paid? Where are the witnesses to the agreement, the payments? Where was my cut? How much was it? What Bank? What Andy had for Breakfast at a diner is not proof! Start acting like an adult on this or go back to your hobbies! 3. I love the way you whip out your representation of the Davidians as a shield against criticism on any other issue. Question: Did you really spend those thousands to "exfiltrate" Strassmeir (out of the reach of uncomfortable media questions) from your CAUSE funds? Isn't CAUSE a non-profit corporation. Did the money come out donations folks sent you for the Davidians? If so, ain't that against the law? Or is it merely unethical? Note: No Mike, Waco is not all we do, it's just the most important part. And no I do not use it as a shield against criticism, save that it is solid visible proof of my patriotic commitment to justice and resistance to tyranny, as opposed to being a computer scribbler patriot, safe in his own living room. When you try to denigrate me, and the work of CAUSE foundation, it does effect our Waco work. If our support base loses confidence in me or the Foundation (being such a small organization we are inextricably intertwined in the public's mind) they will stop supporting us. When that happens, our lawsuits go smash, and Reno wins by default. So when you smear me from coast to coast with your computer warblings, without the benefit of a reply (remember I found you through a third party, you never approached me to get my side of the story until I forced the issue by calling you on your storytelling, and asked to be included in your mailings) I got understandably upset. We are publicly supported, but not every dollar is pledged to Waco. Cause is a non-profit (but not tax exempt) foundation. It was expensive sending two men to Germany, but no laws were broken, ethically or otherwise. How we paid for it is none of your business until you donate to the foundation. May I expect your check soon? And you think sending Andy back to Germany put him out of reach of the media? Son where the hell have you been? Why it thrust him right into the vortex of the media storm. I thought you knew everything about Andy? Yours, Kirk